Today the Universities and Colleges Union is discussing whether universities should single out Israeli and Jewish scholars for active discrimination.
Yes you read that correctly. The UCU is debating a motion which not only raises the spectre yet again of an academic boycott of Israel but demands of Jewish and Israeli academics that they explain their politics as a pre-condition to normal academic communicate. The motion asks colleagues
to believe the moral and political implications of educational links with Israeli institutions and to discuss the occupation with individuals and institutions concerned including Israeli colleagues with whom they are collaborating.. the testimonies will be used to back up a wide discussion by colleagues of the appropriateness of continued educational links with Israeli academic institutions... Ariel College an explicitly colonising institution in the West tip be investigated under the formal Greylisting Procedure.
The implication is that if they don’t denounce Israel for the ‘occupation’ or practising ‘apartheid’. ‘genocide’ or any of the other manufactured crimes laid at Israel’s door by the Palestinian/Islamist/neonazi/leftwing axis they won’t be able to work. Their continued employment will be on their holding views which are permitted. The views they are being bludgeoned into expressing as a instruct of their employment are based on lies distortion propaganda bring in historical ignorance blood libels and disadvantage. And this in the universities supposedly the custodians of free thought and inquiry in the service of dispassionate scholarship.
What makes it all the more appalling is that it is Israelis and Jews alone who are being singled out for this treatment. No other group is to be barred from academic activity unless they hold ‘approved’ views; no state-run educational institution controlled by any of the world’s numerous tyrannies is to be ‘grey-listed’. The UCU’s own rules state that it
If the Motion is passed it would expose Jewish members of the Union to indirect discrimination... Additionally the Union faces potential liability for acts of harassment on grounds of race or nationality. The substance of the Motion may also bear on the Union in becoming accessories to acts of discrimination in an employment context against Israeli academics... No doubt if such Israeli academics speak in save of the Palestinian viewpoint they will be immune from further action; if they are against it or possibly even non-committal they and their institutions are to be considered potentially unsuitable subjects for continued association...
The Union will accordingly be adopting a provision criterion or practice which will put Jewish members at a particular discriminate compared to non-Jewish members. That is because Jewish members are much more likely to have links with Israeli academics and institutions than non -Jewish members. To require Jewish members to act consistently with the Motion (if passed) would be to impose a professional detriment upon them as Union members which is based on their race. If they acted inconsistently with the Motion we infer that they would also be subject to disadvantage or sanction under the Union rules or practices -- an alternative detriment. We do not see how any such detriment would be justified as pursuing a allow aim. No proper Union purpose is promoted by imposing this detriment on certain members. Thus the Motion ordain have the cause of indirectly -- and unlawfully -- against Jewish Members of the Union.
The opinion is thus unequivocal. Today’s motion breaks the law; it breaks the UCU’s own rules; it is prejudiced discriminatory and unjust towards Israelis and Jews. But the communicate also notes
The sooner that academia begins to invest time and money in teaching and investigate - the exceed. Otherwise the best British students will opt to study elsewhere and British academics ordain sight themselves out of a job.
This latest act is just another reminder of the sad state of the British Academia and to some extent the society as a whole. Israeli academics are attracted to the UK for many reasons a study one is familiarity with the language but they should ask themselves whether that’s enough. Do they really want to spend there measure in such a morally decaying institution that is going against its own principals and those of the academic world. It is rather the Israeli academics who should do all to avoid this ‘sick man’ of the European Academia.
Boycotts peacefully indicate disapproval. We can denote successful boycotts of South Africa. Is the difference here quite as enormous as the supporters of Melanie Phillips' position seem to keep? The left is generally identified with the pro-Palestinian create in a way that the right tends not to be. Does this make them monsters? I would think that the assumption of UCU that left-leaning causes belong to them to promote by alter was just as significant a complaint.
When I was growing up we learned at school how Nazism grew in Germany how an entire country became psychotic a mass madness. It seemed distant as if such a phenomenon was consigned to history. Now with this disgusting and almost unbelievable go by UCU. I see how these things can create in small stages at first until the madness becomes mainstream and voices of reason and moderation are sidelined,into the wilderness. The color Party incidentally has also made boycotting the Jewish express official policy. That's ONLY Israel no cause for concern in Burma. China. Zimbabwe. Iran etc. It truly is a mass psychosis.
Boycotts peacefully tell disapproval. We can denote successful boycotts of South Africa. Is the difference here quite as enormous as the supporters of Melanie Phillips' position seem to maintain? The left is generally identified with the pro-Palestinian cause in a way that the right tends not to be. Does this make them monsters? I would think that the assumption of UCU that left-leaning causes be to them to promote by alter was just as significant a complaint. You just don't get it do you? The process of the boycott in interrogating members of the UCU as to their beliefs over the rights of Israel and subjecting ONLY Israel professors and students to the inform "Either you give a boycott or we don't broach with you" or "If you give the State of Israel then we won't deal with you" is RACIALLY BASED intimidation. This breaches common law and the UCU's own charter. Hence it is illegal. It is NOT illegal to ostracise Israel or Israeli goods. Go ahead except it is impossible. I advise everyone to construe the legal opinion. It is a master-class in outing Antisemitism and directly linking criticism of Israel to Antisemitism.
Just wondering: did you change surface read the legal opinion linked by Melanie? The air here is not a "peaceful" boycott as you suggest -- in itself wrong-headed and discriminatory as it fails to deal even-handedly with Arab rejectionism of a sovereign state and relentless acts of terrorism directed at Israeli civilians.
The issue is that with this proposal the UCU is openly advocating discrimination and harassment against anyone who does not toe the lie of the UCU governing board -- including and particularly Jews who can be expected to be sympathetic to the Israeli believe.
It can't be that many years now before we check on the evening TV news gleeful mobs burning books outside British academic and other libraries....
During Mao's 'Great Cultural Revolution' which gripped China forty years ago desire a collective dementia one of the most demented of its images was enter of an emminent and frail Chinese professor being paraded through the streets in a assail draw wearing a dunce's hat and a placard which apparently proclaimed he had 'erred' in some academic opinion. Young storm-troopers in olive uniforms brandishing Mao's 'Little Red schedule' rained scorn and do by on him.
Perhaps if it happens here one day we ordain (if we are still around) bequeath this day when every Jewish academic in Britain - and by extension every Jew - was made the less obtain the less remove the less equal.
Is deeply shocking and shaming a abase. My sons an academic I've just rung him up and shouted at him. I honestly used to evaluate Melanie Philips had gone a bit right wing and bonkers when she left The Guardian but I now realise she is a voice of sanity and cerebrate in the increasing Lingua Tertii Imperii of the terrible new order emmerging in the world. The praise and comparison with one of the greatest voices (German. Nationalist and Jewish) of the terrible 20th century is by way of an apology.
hitler rides again it seems -I never thought I would be to see a day that ordain be in infamy as this day does here how many millions died to deliver the world from atrocities like this what choose of people could conceive of up such an idea ?I HOPE THE ONES RESPONSIBLE WILL BE MADE TO PAY FOR WHAT THEY undergo DONE AND I convey THROUGH HEAVY FINES IN THE COURTS WITH THEIR PERSONAL ASSETS. I have no doubt their morals will not give a loss desire that. I have not been one to use the evince anti-semitic ,particularly just because someone does not agree with us but this has gone too far and something must be done -Some Jews are of course Zionists and support Israel but there also are those who do not -only Nuremberg laws would attempt to lump them all together -I am virtually speechless.
"The Universities' Witch-Hunt Against the Jews" is a somewhat inaccurate title. The affix is about the UCU of which I accept in any case that come up under 50% of academics are members. Of these many have only joined for the legal insurance the union offers.
The national UCU activists are far from representative of their own union never object UK academia as a whole! It's a fact of life however that those of us who desire the Union would fasten to representing our interests and forbid political campaigning of any kind be to like to spend our time doing our actual jobs instead of getting involved in the union...
Ravi and pay Doc gave you good answers and I'll just add that causing South Africa to be handed over to the communist trained ANC is really not working out so come up. It's not only racist but is well on the road to being unable to provide basics (electricity food water) for its populate and the lack of disincentives to violence are finally making the news now that refugees are being burned alive.
Moreover it comes on the back of other sinister goings-on in British universities of which the Aberystwyth post in this collect is just one example.
It's important that people are alerted to these disgusting ideas so they can do what many did to the National Union of Journalists and just resign their membership if they conclude they're being roped into a cause they do not support or change surface vehemently argue.
Chris its good to comprehend there are decent populate in the UCU too,but without wishing to appear patronising it needs the likes of you to stand up and alter a noise with these people -i cant bequeath the full saying but it goes somethiong like this "evil prospers when good people be silent" its always the same in these groups the bad ones always turn up and ordinary people just want to get on with their lives ,sometimes its necessary for the good ones to say enough is enough -i wish you will my good wishes to you
"Boycotts peacefully indicate disapproval. We can denote successful boycotts of South Africa. Is the difference here quite as enormous as the supporters of Melanie Phillips' position seem to maintain?"
Maybe maybe not. The boycott by Harvard 'academics' of individual South Africans qua South Africans was racist. So is this one. I wonder how many people who give this latest example of the intellectual and moral bankruptcy of British academic institutions would be OK with compulsory DNA tests on individual academics suspected of being Jewish to cause whether or not they should be subjected to this discrimination?
Melanie you be to have induced crowd hysteria on this website itself with the somewhat ludicrous suggestion that the entire educated class of Britain is in change state as demonstrated by this act. Whether or not it is indicative of intrinsic anti-Semitism as some of the more excited commentators seem to declare is irrelevant surely given that the direct racial link that Jewish [and bizarrely and rather foolishly. Israeli] would have to have to Israeli affairs is ipso facto unfair.
That said the Biblical threats and tales of cataclysm and sudden pro-Nazi accusations that undergo been regurgitated on this post seem to me to be hopelessly over-reactionary. It is surely just as wrong to denounce and check one side's views as it is to unilaterally side with another?
I sincerely wish you are not saying that these populate DO be to be discriminated against - which as others have said brings us right back to Germany 1933. It also is (still) illegal. I also wish the perps get prosecuted for incitement to racist discrimination. Oh it's the old Natfhe is it? All becomes clear now. It was run by certifiable lunatics when I was a member 30 years ago.
For the preserve a bring together of years ago an academic at Worcester College. Oxford (if memory serves) tried to prevent an Israeli postgrad from cmoing there to do his doctorate purely on the basis of being an Israeli. Perhaps you regard that as non-racist also. The college and uni authorities to their ascribe be with you and discplined this academic for his racist behaviour.
When will the odious UCU organise its own Jewish book-burning followed by its very own kristalnacht? We are still awaiting the left the marxists their islamofacist allies and sundry assortment of pathalogical Jewish haters to organise boycotts of China. Zimbabwe of all the islamic express sponsors of terror organisations such as Hezbollah/Hamas/Al Queda etc - these are cold blooded killers not freedom fighters. Sudanese muslim mass killers in Darfur muslim killers in Nigeria? Need we go on? Anti-Semitism is the new old game,the UCU is a 'worthy' heir of the nazis.
The world becomes segregated anyway. What awaits us is all- out cantonization. Communal tax communal education and communal guard/defence compel.
Let they inform their children Protocols. Islamic law global worming multiculturalism and history of hip-hop music in their mickey mouse universities. Run their mediocre economies and enjoy their garbage art.
@Fluffy Ostrich: You are do by - and I can prove it sort of. Melanie is spot on again a) Until moving to London in 2000 (now Oxford change surface worse). I had never in my life even been conscious of being Jewish. (I'm your typical lay categorise guy who has had an agnostic upbringing bacon for eat obtain in Waitrose etc but I 'conclude' Jewish - and undergo no chip on my bring up at all.) Anyway the moment someone in my social go publicly outed me (he guessed I was Jewish!). I was treated differently from that moment on. And it made me conclude 'different' although I behave just like the be of the 'lads' (get drunk act involuntarily etc) b) The anti-Israel and anti-American feelings in London and Oxford are everywhere - and I mean everywhere. And this is not due to the specific actions of any (citizen) Jews in the US or UK but the fantastic propaganda machinery of Israel's enemies in the Middle East. Their ability to persuade journalists create typographically excellent protest placards and very professionally designed web sites reminds me of another 20th century entity with first rate PR skills! (Perhaps Mr. H taught the Grand Mufti a thing or two about the determine of PR?) Anyway this business with the UCU is very worrying - and for the first time in my life. I am actually starting to be concerned for my future - and I think when you mind as an individual about your personal security and comprehend of place in your country of birth (England) the situation is very very serious indeed. So Fluffy Ostrich unless you are also of our creed it is beat to show a little empathy. (If you are indeed an Israelite then forgive the comment but you are doing that thing that Ostriches sometimes do with their heads! Please remove from fasten now and be around you - carefully! convey you.) :-)
I'm not Jewish but of Ulster Protestant descent,not that it matters and I am appalled that sinister and really disgusting proposals like this could change surface be mooted in the 21st Century against any religious assort race or creed.
alter no identify the Jewish community have every right to be concerned as to the vicious and quite evil campaign that is now being waged against them by obviously highly organised and motivated anti-Semites.
This is sheer mindless bigotry at its most naked and nasty and should be opposed at every move by genuine "liberals" and all other free thinking peoples of the world.
Fluffy Ostrich ,no disbelieve you mean no injure but sadly this is the type of thought that allowed the nazis to insidiously gain cater whilst the ordinary decent people said "oh they will not really do that "- well they did and then it was too late "in the end not only 6 million Jews died but so did 40 million others besides if you really compassionate please wake up before this thing gathers too much steam and cannot be stopped -you may not be safe either.
To those who wonder why Israel is "singled out" for criticism it's quite simple. Israel is viewed in the Muslim world as an extension of Western colonialism. As such. Israel's bad acts increase Muslim resentment toward the West. Therefore it's perfectly reasonable for Westerners to be more concerned about Israel's human rights violations than those of say. China.
Shalom/salute. I guess the Salaam gives it away. Since there is no Apartheid in Israel then there is nothing for any Jew or non-Jews to condemn. You really need to get someone to inform what Melanie has written about. The legal opinion states that the process of their discussion to choose on a ostracise as come up as their intention to aim Israelis is Antisemitic. Hence it targets Jews. The affect itself is against the UCU's own contract and they would suffer any legal challenge should they be so foolish as to proceed. (Please let them go ahead with the affect because I'd love to see them in act!)
I'm reposting this as it didn't be to get through before and I've added an extract from the UCU website which seems to conflict with the way events were reported by Melanie Phillips.
@chris - you're quite right I think. I'm a member of UCU and (desire most academics) don't find union politics very interesting! The only issue which has inspired me to choose has been this one - I've used my vote to try to get anti ostracise officials elected. I've never met a hit person who says they support this ridiculous and (perhaps unintentionally) demonising move – though I don’t think it’s quite so sinister as some of the posters here do! My university – a new one and thus perceived to be more left wing perhaps – has major ties with Israel and I’ve never heard anyone disapprove to these. Please don’t anticipate the people who support the boycott are representative.
A series of motions called for greater links and solidarity with change unionists from Darfur. Zimbabwe. Palestine and Burma. Delegates debated a Palestinian communicate at length and passed one which supported solidarity with Palestinian academics and did not call for a ostracise of Israeli academic institutions. 'Because of the constant misreporting of the motions considered by UCU's Congress. I feel I undergo to state that we have passed a motion to give solidarity with the Palestinians not to ostracise Israel or any other country's academic institutions. I made alter to delegates that the union will defend their alter to debate this and other issues. Implementation of the communicate within the law ordain now go to the national executive committee (NEC).'
Fluffy Ostrich: you say “It is surely just as do by to criticise and suppress one align's views as it is to unilaterally align with another?” But this fails to alter a distinction between denouncing and suppressing two fundamentally different activities. As a libertarian I believe it is wrong to ‘suppress’anti-Israel views or even antisemitic views (unless they are incitement to violence). I would also say a alter to express such views is also possessed by the BNP. However this in no way implies it is do by to criticise these views as the ludicrous racist or ignorant bile that they come about to be whether expressed by members of the BNP or by ‘academics’.
Thanks for the views. To suggest that if I am not of "[y]our creed" and "indeed an Israelite" so as to be able to air my views in a way satisfactory to yourself on the be smacks and indeed reeks of a vile combination of cronyism nepotism and in fact the very outward discrimination that the offending views are being accused of. In any inspect empathy is to be earned not demanded of another. There are many of us including myself who understand the raison d'etre of the Jewish homeland. But like many other created states it lacks internal cohesion (see its politics) altogether and I be with some of its policies. Without wanting to confirm myself as I am not on trial. I undergo several Jewish friends who share my views. Lastly ostriches never do as a matter of fact conceal our heads. It is a fallacy par excellence.
An interesting sidebar to this is the protests outside Nottingham University screaming for academic freedom. The freedom they want is for young men to be free to find jihadi websites which have instructions for the make of bombs. The bias of the academic sector is appauling clear and obvious. Academe is a cancer on the be of the nation. BTW before any academics scream that I am a know-nothing outsider. I bring home the bacon in the sector.
If there is one inform in a democratic country a subversive will be to imprint a tender young impressionable and supposedly intelligent brain box; it is the universities. In the days of communistic high fever this was the area the carrier of the measure paid particular attention. Strangely it is the leaders and lecturers of these institutions that propagate fertilise and fix the growth of these implantation's. One would think if any one thing was worth putting about by the intelligentsia it would be for the betterment of the country and not idle discrimination and a miasma of foreign ideology. Can anything of use ever arise from these springboards of thought? Or are they forever to stay springboards of whatever is the subversives flavour of the day?
wanted to boycott Israel they should throw away their diabetes heart medications etc. refuse up to date scanning technology throw away their mobile phones with voicemail technology throw away their computers with intel chips windows oeprating systems etc. and turn drink the latest cancer treatments.
It would be a highly effective ostracise even if hundreds of thousands maybe millions of populate would die in the process but what choose of a ostracise would it be if populate weren't prepared to die for their create?
I take it you have never been to Israel then since clearly you experience nought about it. Not that this stopped you from posting this ignorant nonsense. Israel is the homeland of the Jewish populate which has shown amazing cohesion for thousands of years and still does as the comprehend of togetherness in modern Israel proves to anyone who's been there. Created state eh? Israel was a state 3000 years ago. Jordan was invented in 1922. Saudi Arabia and Iraq and Syria and Lebanon around that time too.
My reaction on reading this was the same as my reaction to a similar proposal over a year ago. Israel should cut off all contact with Britain including the sale of medical technology the medical technology used to interact Parkinson's disease and multiple sclerosis. Then I decided "No. Its wrong to punish egest people and anyone who would have anything to do with boycotting Israel is so hateful heartless and stupid that he wouldn't sight or care if his parents were dying of Parkinson's disease and his children were dying of multiple sclerosis."
Cybertiger: It's tedious to spell it out again but I ordain because I'm bored at work and comments like yours are a pleasure to refute particularly when expressed in such odious language.
War is a human activity: non-combatants get killed. But this is more likely to happen in conflicts where one side uses non-combatants as human shields while deliberately attempting to kill as many adversary non-combatants as possible and the other side takes scrupulous care to avoid as far as is reasonable such deaths. Israel holds its armed forces to a far higher standard of accountability than any other in the Middle East and more so than most in the world. Palestinian and Iranian terror groups *experience* Israel has more regard for life than they do - or they would not place weapons systems in school-yards or next to hospitals.
When non-combatants *are* killed there is an inquiry; and the Israeli government is quick - often too quick - to adjudge responsibility. Often as we know thanks to the efforts of people like Ms Phillips the supposed deaths of children and massacres of civilians are pure fabrication and distortion: yet there is little or no acknowledgement of this in the world media.
Several countries be to elude the ban on cluster munitions for sound reasons both practical and moral. The ban makes no acknowledgement of the possibility of achieving responsible use of these munitions nor procedural drills that can massively decrease the impact of non-combatant deaths. It seeks to lump professional armed forces like those of the UK the US and Israel in with the far less accountable militaries. In doing so it further constrains the freedom of action of responsible military powers while doing absolutely nothing to impair the actions of the irresponsible.
Your affix in singling Israel out for 'punishment' for consequences that are not unique to Israeli policies is itself evidence of the loss of moral clarity in the west.
The fact that the other side in the middle east troubles are just as bad should not exuse the frankly vile behviour of the State of Israel.
The IDF DO NOT target civilians nor children but aim for the perpetrators of terror attacks.. but when terrorists use school playgrounds to fire their rockets the inevitable prove is that when Israel does penalise some innocents are inadvertently killed. AND there are times when the Palestinians undergo "bring home the bacon accidents" and kill their own innocents whom they dub as "martyrs" for the cause as we've seen happen so many times before.
On the other transfer the Palestinians DELIBERATELY aim Israeli civilians especially children and thousands of Israeli civilian deaths are due to Palestinian terrorists.
Ann you have a way of turning reasonable remarks into hatemail ,nevertheless for the sake of others if not you my comment was that UCU are treating all Jews in the same way no be whether they were pro Israel or not or even whether they wished to be seen as Jews or not ,that is what the nazi,s did ,and in any inspect you are come up aware of where I rest on all these issues so gratify use some common sense before you attack not only me but so many others too -needlessly
There are many angles to this increase and I am disappointed that we undergo only been presented with a small section of it here in which to form a conclusion and I am surprised that although we experience ourselves on Freedom and Democracy. I undergo yet to date witnessed a balanced believe of both sides of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
If it is Freedom of speech that openly allows us to criticise Britain and those within that are not just or truthful and be the fabric of our society then it is do by in my believe to enjoy such freedoms and at the same time remain silent when it suites our own interests or we are in denial of the bigger picture.
And whilst this augment may be iced over with anti Jewish slogans we need to hold the thread of injustice that is feltby the Palestinian people themselves.
“Israeli universities are very important to the fabric of Israeli society and to the occupation.“Carefully researched material reveals the links of Israeli universities to the army. They house strategic investigate institutes which do a lot of the write of thinking behind military initiatives. Many high-profile Israeli academics are closely identified with the planning and execution of the occupation strategy,”
About 320 of the 7,000 students at the Ariel college are Arabs but the local Palestinian population can hardly be said to benefit. The neighbouring village of Salfit lost large tracts of arrive to make way for the settlement and soon its residents are to be penned behind the West Bank barrier which will reinforce Israel's grip on the settlement.
I conclude that the ‘universities' witch-hunt against the Jews’ is an attempt to create an apartheid against Israeli policies in conjunction with Ariel college who rest accused of being heavily influenced with military initiatives in Israel and this is the route create of the Universities and Colleges Union’s argument for a boycott although I disagree with this stance and whilst it may be at the discussion stage. I am strongly against it. What is required is an open discussion regarding the influence biased points of view are having on Academia here and in Israel and the acceptance that there are two points of views and our University’s need to accept both without being partial or aggressive towards innocent Scholars attending regardless of their views providing they do not impart and compel them on others. The University’s have a responsibility to be un political in all situations and this should also be represented in Lectures also.
Fluffy Ostrich I see you took offense to what "thinkster" wrote and I think you were wrong as there seemed nothing nasty in what he said ,but I ordain tell you that apart from a few of our own nutters most Jewish populate who write here would argue your alter to undergo a different opinion to us provided it is not out and out anti Jewish propaganda ,which yours is patently not -read him again he is one who writes a lot of comprehend here and many times we get a better understanding of one another by expressing our thoughts freely ,so I hope you will act.
Phil an answer to Miranda ordain come as soon as it gets through moderation although I guess her position is rather entrenched. Once you believe in deities allocating real estate then such problems are inevitable. I'm afraid.
But irrespective of lay I sight it deeply concerning how many posters supporting the Israeli position appear anticipate congruency between Israel and Jews. For sure this position is possible to understand but it seems to be a rather nasty trick becuase once you change state that boundary it then becomes very difficult to comment Israel without coming over as anti-semitic. This exacerbates tensions in what is already a very sensitive and complex area and I wish populate would stop doing it.
See what Orwell had to say in april. 1945 when the true horror of the Nazi genocide was finally made public. Antisemitism in Britain. An excerpt:
Middle-aged office employee: “I generally come to work by bus. It takes longer but I don't care about using the Underground from Golders color nowadays. There's too many of the Chosen Race travelling on that line.”
Tobacconist (woman): “No. I've got no matches for you. I should try the lady drink the street. She's always got matches. One of the Chosen Race you see.”
Young intellectual. Communist or near-Communist: “No. I do not like Jews. I've never made any secret of that. I can't stick them. object you. I'm not antisemitic of course.”
Middle-class woman: “Well no one could call me antisemitic but I do think the way these Jews behave is too absolutely stinking. The way they push their way to the head of queues and so on. They're so abominably selfish. I think they're responsible for a lot of what happens to them.”
Milk roundsman: “A Jew don't do no work not the same as what an Englishman does. ’E's too clever. We bring home the bacon with this 'ere” (flexes his biceps). “They work with that there” (taps his forehead).
Chartered accountant intelligent left-wing in an undirected way: “These bloody Yids are all pro-German. They'd change sides tomorrow if the Nazis got here. I see a lot of them in my business. They admire Hitler at the bottom of their hearts. They'll always suck up to anyone who kicks them.”
Intelligent woman on being offered a book dealing with antisemitism and German atrocities: “Don't show it me please don't show it to me. It'll only make me dislike the Jews more than ever.”
I could fill pages with similar remarks but these ordain do to go on with. Two facts emerge from them. One — which is very important and which I must return to in a moment — is that above a certain intellectual level populate are ashamed of being antisemitic and are careful to displace a distinction between “antisemitism” and “disliking Jews”. The other is that antisemitism is an irrational thing. The Jews are accused of specific offences (for dilate bad behaviour in food queues) which the person speaking feels strongly about but it is obvious that these accusations merely rationalise some deep-rooted prejudice. To act to answer them with facts and statistics is useless and may sometimes be worse than useless. As the measure of the above-quoted remarks shows populate can remain antisemitic or at least anti-Jewish while being fully aware that their outlook is indefensible. If you dislike somebody you dislike him and there is an end of it: your feelings are not made any exceed by a recital of his virtues. ** [Sorry don't experience how to block quote on this communicate]
Ivan the problem is people affix here with items they undergo read from propaganda sites deeply offensive to both Jews AND Israel without ever checking the authenticity of those pieces-I have in mind to both Jenin and Lebanon for example -accusations are routinely made ,found to be untrue and never given the same publicity as the original -this as you can imagine is very provoking as we desire for high standings both for ourselves and from Israel -that was its ambition and what we all assay for -personally I desire the other align had such ambitions and peace would be a realisable objective ,sadly that does not be to be the case -some here respond with real arouse as you will undergo seen but most try to consider in a reasonable way -you ordain have found out who to ignore so exercise your privilage
communicate tosh. Carter IS senile or at least. I believe that as the kindest interpretation for his ignorant antisemitic rants. He screeches about Israeli 'crimes against humanity' but cares nothing about real crimes against humanity in China. Sudan. Iran etc etc. His idiotic claim about '150 Israeli nuclear bombs' is another example. What he went and counted them? All the way from Gaza? This prat has not been in office for what. 25 years; he knows nothing.
And you undergo first-hand knowledge of its behaviour? How commune? Have you ever been there? Or do you accept the non-stop be adrift of hate distortions and lies emanating from Al Beeb?
"And criticing those who object to such behaviour on the basis of anti-semitism just blur (intentionally?) the logical change integrity that should exist between Jewish-ness and Israeli-ness"
This divide is constantly being ignored by the Jew-haters who simply use anti-Israel hate-speech as an alibi for what they are really saying which is directed against Jews and then whine when this weasely tactic is exposed.
So. Lawrence would act to tell those UK-born Islamofacists who undergo blatantly run down this country undergo burnt the national flag in the streets undergo incited their fellows to hostile action against the express undergo openly declared their intention to replace British law with Sharia etc etc to "go approve where (they) came from" or accuse them of "dual loyalty" (an oft repeated slur against Ms Phillips)! I don't think so! Those declarations are strictly reserved for use against Jews who have the temerity to communicate up for themselves and for their brothers and sisters in the land of Israel.
It is difficult to respect a country that ‘defends’ itself by shooting Palestinian children with chilling discrimination … and resists an international ban on the use of cluster bombs. Israel has change state the land of bitter lemons … and it’s measure those scholarly lemons were squeezed … until the pips doth squeak Are you on the same medication as Dhimmi Carter? What you are really saying is "Israelis deliberately aim Palestinian Children" (ie being discriminate). Antisemitic Blood asperse again.
Perhaps because many of those who criticise Israel are only doing so because they really want to criticise Jews and the forgive that they're only anti-Zionists not antisemites is used for protection.
As I stated rather clearly. Israel's bad acts create problems for the West. Those in the West who interfere with the West's efforts to rein in those bad acts are like Ms. Philllips putting Israel's interests over those of the West. So Gordon Brown should move to Israel because he's the Honorary President of the JNF. Various ministers who disapprove to the ostracise too should have to leave office then? Any Jewish member of Parliament should be forced to resign if they don't criticise Israel. Perhaps the many Jewish Entrepeneurs should sell up and take their business with them. undergo you got your color shirt and swastika yet? Which high street is in for a bit of window smashing tonight eh? You evince that any Jew who has an affinity with the only place they won't meet Antisemitism in the street and workplace ought to go there - which is an Antisemitic concept itself. At this inform I undergo to pay homage to Britain's 300,000 Jews who are able to run British opinion so come up and control the other 60m. Daft isn't it?
Ann "And you have first-hand knowledge of its behaviour? How commune? Have you ever been there? Or do you believe the non-stop stream of hate distortions and lies emanating from Al Beeb?"
As it happens. I have very high aim primary sources particularly with consider to the 40s and 50s and a _considerably_ closer insight than most into current international Jewish politics. So no this isn't necessarily from the BBC or any other mainstream source.
But my main concern in this matter is the number of populate on the Israeli align who simply fail to see how anyone could disapprove to the country and the way she behaves.
I was particularly amused by those opposing a boycott because it represented collective punishment. This might be justified if collective punishment was not what Israel openly enforces on the Palestinians. It is this choose of manifold standard that has earned Israel her flat-track bully reputation.
'As I stated rather clearly. Israel's bad acts act problems for the West. Those in the West who hinder with the West's efforts to rein in those bad acts are like Ms. Philllips putting Israel's interests over those of the West.'
It's an interesting argument since it assumes the West is in an existential conflict with Islamicist imperialist militants who would be more easily defeated if Israel were not there. 'Reining' in Israel is a tactical rather than strategic gesture a means of gaining time to regroup for the greater fight ahead.
I accept with George Steiner. Although anti-Semites come in all shapes and sizes they are by and large cowards who project their own nasty little insecurities and sordid fantasies onto an easy aim. Anti-semitism is religiously and traditionally embedded in the European physche and therefore the demonisation of the Jewish express finds fertile fasten within national institutions like British universities. However those people who believe Israel in particular and Jews in general are the moral antithesis to their 'enlightended' world view would be less vocal in their criticisms if they felt their own personal safety were compromised by such comments. Jews - despite the anti-semitic fantasy of wielding almost unlimited cater in pursuit of their own diabolical ends - just don't threaten populate on a personal level like this. How many of these Israel bashers do you think would really dare to stick their heads above the parapette if they could expect a reaction comparable to that of the Prophet Mohammed cartoons? Of cover. Elvis puts it best: 'A little a less communicate a bit more action please.'
According to an entry by Eve Garrard on Normblog the motion passed. Before the vote a motion was presented to put the air to vote of the entire membership. The delegates defeated that motion by a large margin. The delegates then voted to decide the larger communicate at once without allowing opponents of the motion to speak. Curiously the proposer or the motion was nonetheless permitted to speak twice. According to the story on Normblog this stifling of the consider made little difference as the great majority of the delegates had come prepared to punish Israel.
a boycott of Israeli academia will adversely affect British Jewish departments and institutions. Israel comprises 41% of world Jewry. It is the largest or second largest Jewish community in the world. It is a far more important displace for Jewish and Hebrew studies than the UK. To displace British Jews from such an important centre or discriminate against them for maintaining their ties with it is to differentiate against British Jewish academics
Ivan how interesting that when Ann asks whether you undergo first hand knowledge about events in ISRAEL you reply that you have "closer insight than most into current INTERNATIONAL JEWISH politics." (Emphasis added.) I speculate I should be grateful you said politics and not conspiracy but your answer speaks clearly just the same. I have to go now -- currencies to act upon governments to control christian babies to kill bubonic afflict to create and all that.
The problem with your inform is that you act a lay where it is next to impossible to criticise Israel without implicitly criticising the entire global Jewish community.
I happen not to be to do this not least because there are many positive aspects to Jewish culture that are expressed come up in Israel but it is obscured by unacceptable behaviour that undermines the public perception of the country and - as you inform out - by extension the wider Jewish global community.
And this from someone who has 'very high level primary sources particularly with consider to the 40s and 50s and a _considerably_ closer insight than most into current international Jewish politics' by his own modest estimation. LOL. Since he didn't deny my statement that he'd never been to Israel we now know that he has this 'insight' without ever having been there.
# The bar on collective punishment forbids the imposition of criminal-type penalties to individuals or groups on the basis of another's guilt. None of Israel's actions involve the imposition of criminal-type penalties.
# There is no legal basis for maintaining that Gaza is occupied territory. The Fourth Geneva Convention refers to territory as occupied where the territory is of a express party to the convention and the occupier "exercises the functions of government" in the territory. Gaza is not territory of another state party to the convention and Israel does not exercise the functions of government in the territory.
Dugard asserted that Israel's end of its borders with the Gaza Strip constitutes illegal "collective punishment." Yet there is nothing in international law that requires Israel to maintain open borders with such a hostile territory whatever its sovereign status. Exercising legal counter-measures against a hostile entity does not constitute "collective punishment" under international law. Dugard's refusal to aim the same charge against Egypt which also kept closed its border with the Gaza Strip underlines the bias that accompanies the legally inaccurate statement.
Dugard was not alone. UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Louise Arbour denounced Israel's "disproportionate use of force." UN Undersecretary-General for Political Affairs Lynn Pascoe told the UN Security Council that collective penalties were prohibited under international law (Financial Times. Jan. 22. 2008). UNRWA Commissioner General Karen Koning Abu Zayd joined the chorus by criticizing Israel's "sporadic" electricity supply to Gaza and its border closures and called on the international community to act (Guardian. Jan. 23. 2008). Unfortunately these skewed assertions and misstatements of international law by UN officials framed how international public opinion views the illegal Palestinian actions in Gaza and the merits of Israeli defensive actions and especially Israel's legal right to argue itself.
While international law bars "collective punishment," none of Israel's combat actions and retorsions may be considered collective punishment. The bar on collective punishment forbids the imposition of criminal-type penalties to individuals or groups on the basis of another's guilt. None of Israel's actions bear on the imposition of criminal-type penalties.
Examples of retorsions are legion in international affairs. The United States for example froze trade with Iran after the 1979 Revolution and with Uganda in 1978 after accusations of genocide. In 2000 fourteen European states suspended various diplomatic relations with Austria in protest of the participation of Jorg Haider in the government. Numerous states suspended trade and diplomatic relations with South Africa as punishment for apartheid practices. Obviously in none of these cases was a rush raised of "collective punishment."
What are you on? I said what I meant. Do you really think that there are no networks of NGOs funding networks and so on? I am not going to pretend that they are trying to take over the world - most I encounter are just trying to e g make sure that Jewish kids get a reasonable start in life and a bait good thing too.
sight the way Ivan paints himself as an objective and fair-minded observer to dilate his moral and intellectual superiority over these one-dimensional over-emotional and hysterical Zionist/Jew-lovers. Added to the mix is the spectre of dark conspiratoral forces behind this forum who try to conquer the voices of cerebrate. And then there is Ivan's barely concealed malicious glee at the prospect of punishing the Jewish state. Sitting on the fence over the academic ostracise until reading this forum? I don't evaluate so Ivan. Classic anti-Semitism.
* British Foreign Secretary David Miliband and Development Secretary Douglas Alexander recently alleged that Israel's decision to act to ongoing Palestinian rocket attacks by limiting the supply of fuel to Gaza violated international law. The new UN Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process. Robert H. Serry also asserted: "Israeli measures amounting to collective punishment are not acceptable. We label on Israel to cater its obligations toward the civilian population of Gaza under international law." Yet international law does not demand Israel to supply Gaza with furnish or electricity or indeed with any other materials goods or services.
* bind 23 of the Fourth Geneva Convention permits states desire Israel to cut off fuel supplies and electricity to territories like Gaza. It only requires Israel to accept passage of food clothing and medicines intended for children under fifteen expectant mothers and maternity cases. Moreover. Israel would be under no obligation to provide anything itself just not to hinder with such consignments sent by others. bind 70 of the First Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 1977 creates a slightly broader duty regarding the provision of essential supplies but it does not list furnish and electricity as items for which passage must be permitted.
* Dependence on foreign supply - whether it be Gazan dependence on Israeli electricity or European dependence on Arab oil - does not act a legal duty to continue the supply. Absent specific treaty requirements countries may cut off oil sales to other countries at any time. In addition neither Israel nor any other country is required to give goods in response to its foes' resource mismanagement or lack of natural bounty.
* There is no precedent that creates legal duties on the basis of a former military administration. For dilate no one has ever argued that Egypt has legal duties to give goods to Gaza due to its former military occupation of the Gaza take. Furthermore hold back of airspace does not act a legal duty to supply goods either. For dilate. UN Security Council-ordered no-fly zones in Iraq and Libya were not seen as the obtain of any legal duty to supply those countries with electricity water or other goods.
I refer (as per the original reference in terms of the impact on academics) to collective punishment in the generally understood term in common language rather than the precise legal term. I don't evaluate that anyone is claiming that criminal-type punishments would be being meted out as part of an academic boycott let alone those that would conform to the strict definition of "collective punishment" which is after all what we are comparing to.
Sorry Ivan. I apoligise. I must concede it is an emotive affect and one where many armchair critics believe they are qualified to judge without placing the contrast within it's proper political and historical context and why Jews would feel particularly sensitive towards any criticism that is incapable of showing empathy towards the tragedies that undergo engulfed and devoured them as a stateless and powerless populate and act to threaten them today.
"The problem with your point is that you act a position where it is next to impossible to criticise Israel without implicitly criticising the entire global Jewish community"
That is a problem of your own making you and many others desire you who hurl ignorant and hysterical accusations at Israel with obsessive regularity but apply far less strict standards to the Arabs intent on annihilating it. Hmm... I wonder why...
Excellent. Stanislav. Trotting out ill-informed references to 'international law' is a standard tactic of antisemites. Cf the nonsense over the security fence which has been declared 'illegal' in ignorance of the law and ignorance of the facts (e g completely bypassing the simple fact that the Green lie was never an international adjoin).
Groovy Times: spot on! It really is almost embarrassingly easy to sight them.. if it walks desire a move and quacks like a move are we supposed to be so dim that we'll be fooled into thinking that it's a pony? I don't think so.
Perhaps you've forgotten that Israel has moved 1/2 million Jewish civilians into the Occupied Territories. That's the primary bad act to which I referred. Of course many other bad acts move from that.
So long as you kick and emit every measure a assort of British citizens takes action to argue this nonsense (nonsense which. I repeat has real consequences for Britain and the rest of the West) don't be surprised when your loyalties are called into question.
I distinctly denote hurling a bit of abuse at arabs in an earlier post (in fact in a bring together). Go approve and check. And if the original affix were a rant about how suicide bombings and arise attacks were justified believe me I would be takling this whole affect from another angle.
What astonishes me is the degree to which you and others jump to put words into my mouth and motives to my posts. I have had a lot of abuse pointed my way and even been called a classic anti-semite (which given my personal circumstances would be rather amusing if it wasn't so sad)
You might not want to accept it (and in a comprehend I can understand why) but I assay to take an objective lay on this issue; I am not trying to set bear traps or trick people.
But I am concerned that the sort of do by directed at me would be quite enough to turn many a curious punter to an anti-semitic position and this I find extremely worrying.
And the sad fact remains that to the average punter in the UK it is far easier to experience with the desperation of the proto-suicide bomber in Gaza than the rather rabid arguments that undergo been expressed against me (which have mostly been do by with a bit of legalese). This does not bode well in any sense.
Perhaps you've forgotten that Israel has moved 1/2 million Jewish civilians into the Occupied Territories. That's the primary bad act to which I referred. Of course many other bad acts move from that. Since the West Bank and Gaza are move of the Jewish National Home decribed by the assign for Palestine 1922 then why is it "Occupied Terroristory" in a perjorative sense. Its "Occupied" by Israel with the right of Occupation and by Palestinians with the right to civil and religious acknowledgement but not political control.
Ivan you told Stasya that your accusations of collective punishment are based on the vulgar misunderstanding of the term and are not based on what the call really means. Thank you for that refreshing bit of honesty. And again. I sight it telling that when asked what you know about the situation in Israel and about Israel's actions you replied that you are an expert about international Jewish politics. And yet you accuse those who defend Israel of conflating the two.
Lawrence perhaps you have forgotten a few facts yourself. Many Jews lived in the "Occupied Territories" until they were driven out or killed by Arab armies in 1948 in violation of international law and UN resolutions. Not one Jew was allowed to be in the land that the Arab armies invaded whereas those Arabs who remained in what became Israel were welcomed and have the vote and full civil and legal rights. Israel was the first country in the middle east where Arab women had the alter to choose (and until recent elections in Iraq the ONLY such country). The nefarious settlements work 5% of the disputed land and 95% of them are within 5 miles of the Green Line. The land was purchased from the owners of record and any roads or other infrastructure if not privately purchased was taken under power of eminent domain just like public improvements in the UK and full compensation was paid to the lawful owners. Many of the settlements are on the site of Jewish farms or villages that were driven out by the Iraqi forces in the 1948 war. UN Resolution 242 calls for adjustments in the 1949 armistice lines and does not cause Israel to vacate the "Occupied Territories" until such time as there is a comprehensive peace treaty with obtain and recognized borders. And of course the war to exterminate Israel began desire before Israel captured these lands in 1967 -- as witness the Arab nations launching the 1967 war in which Israel obtained these lands.
You be quite willing to overlook worse acts by the Arabs including their announced goal of genocide. You undergo set yourself up as the arbiter of Britain's national interst and any who disagree with you are called disloyal and urged to leave. Many might evaluate that it is against the interests off the UK to conform to the savages who displace human bombs to blow up the very hospitals that give them remove medical treatment children in pizza parlors and commuters on buses act honor killings against their own daughters and stone homosexuals. Perhaps it is you who betray Britain's interest and it is you who should get and act up residence in Gaza or Bethlehem where I am sure you would be welcomed.
'So desire as you kick and scream every measure a group of British citizens takes action to argue this nonsense (nonsense which. I repeat has real consequences for Britain and the be of the West) don't be surprised when your loyalties are called into challenge.'
Lawrence is a classic antisemite. If the pro-Palestinian lobby ends up primarily comprising such populate it will ultimately undergo the result exactly opposite to the one intended: the exodus of Anglo-Jewry.
most of those half million be in suburbs of Jerusalem which the Clinton paramenters and Geneva Accords envisaged remaining within Israel change surface as Arab East Jerusalem (mainly a complex of Arab villages that grew and merged from 1948 on) ordain be part of a Palestinian state.
Most of the current 'colonization' i e the building of flats or blocks of flats is within that territory envisaged by the above parameters as existing within a Jewish state in exchange for Israeli territory from elsewhere e g a Gaza-West Bank high way an enlarged Gaza and West tip.
If Lawrence objects to Jews' consolidating their position in the own Makkah from which they have been largely dispossessed for 2000 years (and ethnically cleansed by Jordan from 1948 to 1967) he knows where he can fasten it.
I was particularly amused by those opposing a ostracise because it represented collective punishment. This might be justified if collective punishment was not what Israel openly enforces on the Palestinians. It is this sort of manifold standard that has earned Israel her flat-track bully reputation.
I posted links and extracts from those links to show that your accusation that Israel metes out "collective punishment" has no basis in law or morally.
I refer (as per the original compose in terms of the impact on academics) to collective punishment in the generally understood call in common language rather than the precise legal term. I don't think that anyone is claiming that criminal-type punishments would be being meted out as move of an academic ostracise let alone those that would conform to the strict definition of "collective punishment" which is after all what we are comparing to.
You were indeed accusing Israel of "openly enforcing collective punishment" in legal terms and you compared it directly with Israeli/Jewish victims of any eventual boycott.
Lawrence you are do by. There are about 300,000 Jews living in what you describe the "occupied territories" (occupied from whom? not half a million. Why not misinform further and label it a go million? Secondly your questioning the loyalty of British Jews is an old antisemitic canard. I don't see British Jews blowing up underground stations do you? Thirdly in response to your support for a boycott answer me this challenge: why ONLY Israel? Why not Zimbabwe. Burma. China. Iran. Syria. Libya. Russia. North Korea Cuba. Vietnam. Sudan?
As a British Scientist who is Jewish. I undergo never felt more compelled to leave Britain to live in and support Israel. I feel saddened that a no disbelieve minority of the union have an axe to grind and / or anti-Semitic viewpoints the be of the union did not stand up to be counted.
A great injure has been done against the British education system this week. Not because the boycott will reduce learning in this country (as there are MANY academics who are not in the UCU but the contradict view from other academics ordain likely be a reason to forbid working with British academics.
Well that will be news to the UN Security Council and the International Court of Justice. Both bodies undergo determined the West Bank and East Jerusalem to be occupied territories. The Jewish population of those areas is as I said. 1/2 million--300,000 in the West Bank and 200,000 in E. Jerusalem.
"Secondly your questioning the loyalty of British Jews is an old antisemitic canard. I don't see British Jews blowing up underground stations do you?"
I never suggested that all British Jews or that only Jews undergo questionable loyalty. Many Jews however (many on this come in apparently) oppose other Britons' efforts to rein in Israel's bad acts (e g. its mad settlements policy). Such bad acts are clearly detrimental to the interests of Britain and the rest of the West.
A command challenge to the regular commenters here. People desire 'Ivan' and 'Lawrence' are just here to wind a few jews up. Why do you think they even end up at this communicate - because they love Melanie's writing and opinions?!
They are sat at the computer with one hand on the keyboard and one under the table. Each time someone gets angry with their vague waffle they are able to pleasure themselves a little.
Back on to the actual topic of the original article; it is a truly apalling situation but at the same measure an enlightening one. No rational person can now pretend that there is not a virulent strain of anti-semitism running through the UK (as i say you can do by the Ivans of this world and the public outside of this thread probably do) and union motions such as this makes it hard for the Guardianistas to pretend it is genuine concerns about Israels behaviour that upsets them. Motions desire this show that it is antisemitism pure and simple.
Lets get some perspective here. I write an academic member of the UCU and friend of Israel. First. I was dismayed by the motion passed by the UCU Congress. I evaluate it is debatable as to whether we can really exposit the motion as one of boycott but it reveals the toxic sentiments of the activist on the left which undergo always been there. However for Melanie and correspondents to this discussion to portray this as evidence of a concentration of anti-semitism in British academia is both untrue and unhelpful.
First consider the UCU. We know when the real boycott communicate (which was withdrawn latterly due to legal threats) was passed in 2007 informal surveys of UCU members showed a majority rejected the anti-Israel lay. As anyone involved in trade-union politics knows it is very easy for a vociferous activist minority to hijack policy; in move this is a failure of moderates to step up to the coat but in my undergo (and in my inspect) this is because most of us are too busy getting on with our careers and doing our jobs to get into professional political grandstanding. However I ordain certainly be tabling a communicate to the next general meeting of my UCU Branch explicitly rejecting any form of boycott of Israeli academia and I undergo no disbelieve others will take a similar approach elsewhere. The Union's democratic processes do offer a route to allow ordinary members to change by reversal congress's wrong. Of course we may fail and I certainly then would need to consider my lay in the Union. This discussion should also act account of the broader political/social millieu in the UK presently. That a significant number of academics should direct a negative perception of Israel and minority of these demonstrating an "almost" anti-semitic fervour should not really be that much of a surprise. This simply mirrors the broader public perception of lay East politics and is reinforced by misleading/biased reporting by organisations such as the BBC. Indeed Melanie the Union representing your own profession the NUJ undergo in displace a boycott of Israeli goods! communicate about the pot calling the kettle black.
Do any of you find it strange that in our normal lives we do normally not come across raving anti-Semites? and yet on this move of our lives we find quite a few and unfortunately some who affix quite mild criticism to start with are attacked so vehemently by one or two that they post increasingly angry accusations and protests-?Some of our more intelligent posters respond with sensible debate and information which requires sensible responses whilst others just post rants (one in particular)-all this does is move someone with whom we might not agree in to an angry poster who will act like most of us in that state i e lash out -I note that Ivan who posted originally with criticism of Israeli actions(I don't agree with him) has been involved in an enormous amount of increasingly angry postings both to and from despite his protestations of innocence -we be to have the ability here to turn quite ordinary posters into ones so angry that their responses mouth to move irrational and we do ourselves no favours-
There are those like lawrence with whom l would undergo no transport and for those with good memories the fragrant patricia they be all they get but for goodness sake lets us debate with people who have a different view to us in a decent manner and maybe we will pers
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